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Terrible things that will NOT now happen..

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Hey 3G, you didn't pick up on the 'read between the lines' bit in that quote, did you? Of course, having journalistic experience, I'm good at it! I'm referring to this bit: 'so far'; that means the writer is fully accepting that things may yet go tits up. so to speak! It's always worth reading things carefully to pick up on little titbits such as this, rather than taking everything at face value. There, a nice tip for the future.

Poundwatch: 76 and bit pence this morning. Getting ever closer to the 65p pre-possible-brexit level (no, not really....)

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"Finland showdown with Brussels after Finns rule 77% of Iraqi migrants could be sent home"

Brilliant; will they slaughter all the Jews next? I know, let's all go back to the 1930's, and turn to far right wing ideology! It worked back then, of course...

3G, have you joined Britain First yet? They like your sort.

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Had a good, thorough, read of the article by the way, 3G, and there's plenty of read between the lines stuff in there, which basically says 'nobody knows what the future holds'. I especially liked this line, in reference to one method: "It worked back in the 19th century with repeal of the corn laws, dramatically improving people’s lives, so why not now?" Probably because that was the 19th century, and this isn't. Are we really reduced to considering economic strategies that worked almost 200 years ago, when the world - and the UK - was a very, very different place? If so, don't you find that just a tad embarrassing? 

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I told you it was written by one of your Remainian chums Merc, so undoubtedly I'd be gifting something that you could cherry pick.

Uncertainty is part of life, and you can't wish it away.  It's the fuel of progress (and the stock market).

That propaganda about Remain having a monopoly on "progressivism" fell flat at the referendum, and it's wearing thinner by the day.  As for a time when the world was "a very, very different place":  I will simply quote from that stellar "progressive" Mikhail Gorbachev.

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The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.

 

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4 hours ago, mercuryg said:

 

"Finland showdown with Brussels after Finns rule 77% of Iraqi migrants could be sent home"

Brilliant; will they slaughter all the Jews next? I know, let's all go back to the 1930's, and turn to far right wing ideology! It worked back then, of course...

3G, have you joined Britain First yet? They like your sort.

I don't have any problem with Jews - quite possibly because I'm not a member of the Labour Party.

I don't have any problem with ex-Muslims either, or indeed most Muslims on a one-to-one level, where they are well away from the evil influence of the religion of peace.  I provide a tiny bit of financial support now and then to Muslims taking up Mrs Merkel's over-generous invite to help them on their way.  Interestingly, they aren't actually fleeing from anything other than a miserable life in yet another country trashed by the evils of Islam.

I don't go around implying people who I don't agree with are extremists in order to demonstrate an "obvious" moral superiority.

My "sort" see the world as it is, not as we FEEL it SHOULD be.  My "sort" don't suppress information that doesn't fit our narrow narrative, and don't shout down others.  My "sort" does not feel a need to dominate and obliterate other cultures and nations to promulgate a supposed New World Order.  My "sort" progress by enlightened self-interest, and not by re-writing the dictionary.  My "sort" are the rational people of this world.

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5 hours ago, mercuryg said:

Hey 3G, you didn't pick up on the 'read between the lines' bit in that quote, did you? Of course, having journalistic experience, I'm good at it! I'm referring to this bit: 'so far'; that means the writer is fully accepting that things may yet go tits up. so to speak! It's always worth reading things carefully to pick up on little titbits such as this, rather than taking everything at face value. There, a nice tip for the future.

Poundwatch: 76 and bit pence this morning. Getting ever closer to the 65p pre-possible-brexit level (no, not really....)

Keep talking down your own country down Merc; even after all the other false starts the sunny uplands of the internationalist New World Order are still within our grasp.

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Though, maybe you need to explain to us voters exactly how putting the UK under control of international capitalism, and hammering down their wages achieves this?  The problem with any means to an end is that the means become the end.

 

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6 hours ago, mercuryg said:

Hey 3G, you didn't pick up on the 'read between the lines' bit in that quote, did you? Of course, having journalistic experience, I'm good at it! I'm referring to this bit: 'so far'; that means the writer is fully accepting that things may yet go tits up. so to speak! It's always worth reading things carefully to pick up on little titbits such as this, rather than taking everything at face value. There, a nice tip for the future.

 

Are you poaching on my patch? Just joking. Feel free! Now that we are officially 'cohorts' you are welcome. Maybe we should apply for joint custody of Mary's little, white, fluffy lamb?

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3G; at least be honest, you have a massive problem with Muslims. You have a massive problem with immigrants. You believe that the refugees fleeing a war torn country where they would likely be killed are all ISIS sleepers. You'd fit in well at Britain First. Furthermore, you DO shout down others; you DO pick and choose information that suits your agenda. Perhaps you are so wrapped up in your own self belief that you don't see it? I don't believe I've met you, but sadly I have an image of you as the self righteous pompous oaf at the bar whom everyone avoids. I wonder why?

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3G; at least be honest, you have a massive problem with Muslims. You have a massive problem with immigrants. You believe that the refugees fleeing a war torn country where they would likely be killed are all ISIS sleepers. You'd fit in well at Britain First. Furthermore, you DO shout down others; you DO pick and choose information that suits your agenda. Perhaps you are so wrapped up in your own self belief that you don't see it? I don't believe I've met you, but sadly I have an image of you as the self righteous pompous oaf at the bar whom everyone avoids. I wonder why? Oh, and the pound still over 76p on the dollar. I'm sure you told us it had recovered.

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27 minutes ago, mercuryg said:

Oh, and the pound still over 76p on the dollar. I'm sure you told us it had recovered.

I'm in Brussels again next week. I think I'll ask to be paid in dollars this time.

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7 minutes ago, Canny lass said:

I'm in Brussels again next week. I think I'll ask to be paid in dollars this time.

Surely the pound will have recovered by then? I mean, according to some, it had two weeks ago. But it really hadn't. Yes, dollars are fun at the moment.

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12 hours ago, mercuryg said:

3G; at least be honest, you have a massive problem with Muslims. You have a massive problem with immigrants. You believe that the refugees fleeing a war torn country where they would likely be killed are all ISIS sleepers. You'd fit in well at Britain First. Furthermore, you DO shout down others; you DO pick and choose information that suits your agenda. Perhaps you are so wrapped up in your own self belief that you don't see it? I don't believe I've met you, but sadly I have an image of you as the self righteous pompous oaf at the bar whom everyone avoids. I wonder why? Oh, and the pound still over 76p on the dollar. I'm sure you told us it had recovered.

I have met loads of immigrants as they get their first foot on European soil; I have yet to meet a single one who any rational person would class as a refugee.  There are eight points of the compass for refugees, and Arab countries like to be known for their hospitality.  Please explain why the compass for your alleged refugees only points North West?  Please explain why they are pretty much all young males?  Bullets, bombs and missiles don't discriminate in the way you'd like to suggest!

Once again - because the distinction seems to be very hard for you - my problem is with Islam, and it's a problem we all share if we are honest.  Ask yourself what Brits would do if the atrocities that are now being perpetrated were being associated with them.  We'd be out on the streets to the last person showing our disgust and demonstrating solidarity with our hosts.  Where are the Islamic protest marches, or at least those that aren't organised by ex-muslims?

I will refrain from characterising you, and I don't frequent UK bars. Here you are attempting left-wing labelling (a substitute for thought) once again!

If you have an open mind then google on ex-muslim and read what ex-muslims have to say about Islam.  You'll find plenty if things to support your wooly-minded ideas of fraternity, but at the end of the day any rational person will need to admit that Islam is an evil belief-set that no free country should tolerate.

How many more times do I need to say that the pound is just fine where it is?  It's the only visible affect of the Brexit vote for you to point to; all other indications have totally confounded economist group-think, and the honest ones have already admitted this.  Even here predictions were for a 20% fall in Sterling, and the last time I looked it was a modest 8.3%.

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I have to admit that I too have a problem with Islam as an ideology, even though I count Muslims among some of my friends.

I don't have the educational skills or the verbal eloquence of some posters in here, but I know mind control when I see it.

Muslims are locked into a religion, for life, mostly. They leave upon pain of death. It's even been said that many suicide bombers are in fact genuinely suicidal and, seeing as taking your own life is forbidden in Islam, they take the 'martyr' route, which allows them to exterminate themselves with the full backing of Mohammed and their religious leaders, along with the bonus of 36, or 72, or whatever the current number of virgins is, thrown in for their efforts.

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4 hours ago, webtrekker said:

I don't have the educational skills or the verbal eloquence of some posters in here,

You have as much verbal eloquence as anybody else here  - except perhaps HPW. Your education I don't know about but you are clearly intelligent so don't under estimate your contributions.

I also have problems with Islamic ideology, but only with SOME aspects of it, but then again, I have problems with SOME aspects of Christianity as well. Ask yourself just what it is in Islamic ideology that you are against. Is it ALL of it (much of it is the same as Christian ideology)? Is it part of it? Is it perhaps just something that you've got hung up on like a near 2000 year old story of a man taking a child bride? Or perhaps the activity of a handful of extremist Muslims - I know, it may seem like more than a handful but of the entire Muslim population it is not more than so  (Christianity has had it's fair share of slaughterers too). Ask yourself how much you really know about it. Have you studied it? Have you read their holy book? Have you read the bible to enable you to make comparisons? Have you taken a course of study on Islam? Ask yourself: How much do I really know about Islam?

You don't have to answer publicly but be honest with yourself.

Mind control, in varying degrees, appears in all religions I've had a look at. It hasn't been terribly successful: Some catholics  practice birth control and when it doesn't work they have abortions - despite the Hell that awaits them for their sins - some Jews do not respect the sabbath, some muslims do not cover their hair. Religions do not appear to be for life if you don't want it to be. Mind control already started to lost its impact when torture chambers disappeared. Most people are no longer afraid of their religious leader as they were before.

The same thing is happening within Islam. I don't know how many Muslim friends you have. It's none of my business either, so I'll not ask. I have five very close friends who are Muslim (and through them about 25 others, not so close but friends never the less). Some live in sweden, some live in England and one lives in Holland. They, and their parents, dress like me,  style their hair like me, eat like me, go out and enjoy themselves like me and they visit their designated place of worship as often as I do (christenings, weddings, funerals). There is nothing in either their dress or their behaviour to make me think that they are more Muslim than I am Christian. You are probably rubbing shoulders on a daily basis with hundreds of 'Muslims' who no longer follow the rituals of Islam just as you are probably rubbing shoulders with hundreds of 'Christians' who no longer follow the rituals of the Church of England.

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"3G :"If you have an open mind"

If? Of course i have an open mind! That's why I see no problem with Muslims (by the way, love the get out clause - 'I have a problem with Islam' - is this the new 'some of my friends are muslims/black/gay?) - or persons of any religion or race. Each to their own, and as Canny Lass rightly points out, there are elements of Christianity that are equally worrying. 

I still don't understand, however, your blatant, and rather concerning, refusal to accept that people running from war-torn Syria are anything other than refugees. Why did they wait, I wonder, until their homes has been bombed to bits, before leaving? Surely, if - as you believe - they are a secret Muslim army, waiting to take over, they would have left before, before - that is - they had seen family members and loved ones killed, maimed, whatever by persons of their own religious persuasion? I mean, that would make more sense, if you look at it with your open mind, wouldn't it? Also, you come back to the 'they are pretty much all young males' line far too often'; I don't know which newspaper you read to get your misinformation, but a quick Google search (you're keen to have me use it, so here's one for you) tells you that this is simply not the case. What about all the kids, for example? Or are you classing them as 'young males' (you have to in order for your claim to stack up).

To find an adult, one with obvious intelligence, trotting out the 'there are no refugees' line, is not amusing, it's worrying. 

As for your assertions about 'rational people'; what, exactly do you mean by that? I have a rational approach to life - why wouldn't I? I have plenty of experience in working with and meeting people of all persuasions, and don't look at one person in a different way to others, no matter their religion or race. They are people, something you might want to consider (after all, you're the one who, when referring to Muslims, ten to use "they"; I wonder why?).

Further, I couldn't care how many times you have to assure me the pound is fine where it is; you should have thought about that before telling us it had recovered after Brexit, when anybody with a rational, open or whatever mind could take ten seconds and tell you how wrong you are. Just as you're wrong about their being 'a handful' of refugees. Pound Watch: 76 and a bit. Still not recovered, 3G still massively wrong and, I might add, businesses in the UK still not sure what the hell is going on.

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"We'd be out on the streets to the last person showing our disgust and demonstrating solidarity with our hosts. "

Seriously? Since when has this been a British trait? Are you actually from this country?

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"3G :"If you have an open mind"

If? Of course i have an open mind! That's why I see no problem with Muslims (by the way, love the get out clause - 'I have a problem with Islam' - is this the new 'some of my friends are muslims/black/gay?) - or persons of any religion or race. Each to their own, and as Canny Lass rightly points out, there are elements of Christianity that are equally worrying. 

I don't see any "Of course"; I see an everything is black or white left-winger who's pet theories are being overtaken by events, and who is floundering.

Can you point out these "elements of Christianity" that are worrying, or is this another of your bald statements that falls to a simple straightforward question?

The old canard is to take a paragraph from The Old Testament and compare it to the Quran.  This precludes the fact that Christians regard the Old Testament as a quaint historical record that must be interpreted in a modern context. On the other hand the Quran is a manual for life that is violently beyond criticism.  The Quran specifically and repeatedly exhorts Muslims to go out and slaughter infidels.  It is the evil life-manual of an utterly evil belief set, and to compare it to any other religion is an ignorant slander.

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I still don't understand, however, your blatant, and rather concerning, refusal to accept that people running from war-torn Syria are anything other than refugees. Why did they wait, I wonder, until their homes has been bombed to bits, before leaving? Surely, if - as you believe - they are a secret Muslim army, waiting to take over, they would have left before, before - that is - they had seen family members and loved ones killed, maimed, whatever by persons of their own religious persuasion? I mean, that would make more sense, if you look at it with your open mind, wouldn't it? Also, you come back to the 'they are pretty much all young males' line far too often'; I don't know which newspaper you read to get your misinformation, but a quick Google search (you're keen to have me use it, so here's one for you) tells you that this is simply not the case. What about all the kids, for example? Or are you classing them as 'young males' (you have to in order for your claim to stack up).

"anything other than refugees"  Sheer delusion!  The overwhelming majority of the people flooding into Europe are simple economic migrants. Refugees have a desire to go home when their home situation is resolved; these young males have no intention of going back where they came from at any point in their futures.

More bald unsubstantiated statements!  I see hundreds of these people with my own two eyes, and get to talk to a random selection.  Generally their English is far better than the natives here, and they are keen to illustrate this.  Of course I can't admit to your superior viewpoint of observing them from over my pint at Weatherspoons, but we'll all have to live with that.

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  To find an adult, one with obvious intelligence, trotting out the 'there are no refugees' line, is not amusing, it's worrying. 

At no time have I said "that there are no refugees", so your worry is ill founded.  I am placed to observe what you are not, and as I've said I have yet to meet one of these alleged refugees.  Every one I've talked to is simply seeking a better life - ergo, they are undoubtedly economic migrants.

And you've once again evaded the direct question:  There are eight points of the compass for refugees, and Arab countries like to be known for their hospitality.  Please explain why the compass for your alleged refugees only points North West?  Please explain why they are pretty much all young males?  Bullets, bombs and missiles don't discriminate in the way you'd like to suggest!

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As for your assertions about 'rational people'; what, exactly do you mean by that? I have a rational approach to life - why wouldn't I? I have plenty of experience in working with and meeting people of all persuasions, and don't look at one person in a different way to others, no matter their religion or race. They are people, something you might want to consider (after all, you're the one who, when referring to Muslims, ten to use "they"; I wonder why?).

Actually, you are doing your very best to illustrate that you don't think deeply or rationally.  You can't reason far enough to separate an inherited belief-set from the basic humanity of a human being.  Every one of the economic migrants I meet is only doing what any of us would do: seek a better life.  But, a significant proportion of them come with a cultural payload that is entirely incompatible with 21st century Western culture.  That cultural payload trashed their own countries, and is set to trash ours.  The other consideration is that the sheer scale of this economic migration is beyond anything we can reasonably absorb without significantly depressing our own living standards.  The refusal of the left to acknowledge both these factors is a folly now being exposed in Germany.  Germany has an excuse - their massive post-war national guilt complex - but our own left have no such excuse.

"They are people, something you might want to consider"  I assure you that you have no monopoly on basic humanity, and that I've met many more of them and determined that they are indeed "people" than you have.  This is no more than the usual left wing tactic of claiming moral superiority on entirely fatuous grounds.

"(after all, you're the one who, when referring to Muslims, ten to use "they"; I wonder why?)"  I'm sure CL will be able to more ably help your musings about English grammar here.

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Further, I couldn't care how many times you have to assure me the pound is fine where it is; you should have thought about that before telling us it had recovered after Brexit, when anybody with a rational, open or whatever mind could take ten seconds and tell you how wrong you are. Just as you're wrong about their being 'a handful' of refugees. Pound Watch: 76 and a bit. Still not recovered, 3G still massively wrong and, I might add, businesses in the UK still not sure what the hell is going on.

You're now floundering!  You haven't directly quoted what I said because you'd then need to include the words "Not too far I hope, for the sake of the UK economy."

Willing your own country to fail is despicable and traitorous in my book.  The overwhelming evidence is that all the dire "expert" predictions were wrong.  Those "experts" now admit this (yes, even the IMF) but not you, and you imply that I don't live in the real world!   It seems that everyone is  "massively wrong" but yourself, and you've recently compared me to a saloon bar loudmouth!  Here, I'm left wondering about your own role in the local bar.

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7 hours ago, mercuryg said:

"We'd be out on the streets to the last person showing our disgust and demonstrating solidarity with our hosts. "

Seriously? Since when has this been a British trait? Are you actually from this country?

Since long before we had a formal code for organising such protests. http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Organising-a-protest-march-or-static-demonstration/1400002380711/1400002380711

Point me to an Islamic country that has a code for organised dissent with the ruling cliques please?

When you are a guest in a foreign country you are particular sensitive to the doings of miscreants of your own nationality.  Well, at least you are unless you tacitly support them!  Here I'm going to quote that hotbed of right-wing extremism The Guardian:

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Clerics who proclaim that non-believers and apostates must be killed or call for jihad against Jews have Twitter followings running into millions ... The ideology has deep roots. We have to reach right the way down and uproot it.

Not something we are going to "uproot" if - like you - we are in total denial that such ideology even exists!

What Makes Islam So Different?

 

Despite your constantly running down your own country I don't see the need to cast doubt on your origins.

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You said, quite clearly, there were no more than a handful of refugees. Yes? You did, didn't you? My role in the local bar is one of friendship, to all. As I've said, I couldn't care less about their religion, or race. Unlike, I fear, yourself. These days I scan read your posts, by the way, because they are long winded and boring. Brevity rules. Pound still over 76p. 

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5 hours ago, mercuryg said:

You said, quite clearly, there were no more than a handful of refugees. Yes? You did, didn't you? My role in the local bar is one of friendship, to all. As I've said, I couldn't care less about their religion, or race. Unlike, I fear, yourself. These days I scan read your posts, by the way, because they are long winded and boring. Brevity rules. Pound still over 76p. 

"You said, quite clearly, there were no more than a handful of refugees. Yes? You did, didn't you?"  ---  And, your source of this deliberate misquote is....?

[Note: you probably need to consult cohort CL for help here, because she's spent hours scrutinising my past posts.]

"I couldn't care less about their religion, or race"   ---  So, because of this newly-assumed attitude, none of the straightforward questions I've put to you on the subject need to be answered?  OK, fine; I will keep them in abeyance until you start to care again.

"My role in the local bar is one of friendship" --- I'd like to hear that from said alleged friends, because I suspect you employ the same bluff, bluster, and awkward-question avoidance tactics there too.

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No, I can't be bothered.

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4 hours ago, mercuryg said:

No, I can't be bothered.

 

4 hours ago, Canny lass said:

Me neither mercuryg.

Great fun ganging up on someone when they don't have the time to take you on.  Not quite as much fun when you are asked simple straightforward questions that expose your paucity of argument and evasive tactics.

Have fun but don't do this to anyone else!

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No, I just can't be bothered; you'll go on believing that there are no refugees, that all muslims are terrorists, that Europe is about to splinter, that the UK can somehow become a successful economic power, and that the pound is recovering (still 76p) as long as the Guardian and Observer and whoever (let's face it, you must read the Mail, to believe all the refugees are young men) tells you, so there's no point. You talk about open minds; you'd do well to invest in one. I'm bored with you.

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6 hours ago, mercuryg said:

No, I just can't be bothered; you'll go on believing that there are no refugees, that all muslims are terrorists, that Europe is about to splinter, that the UK can somehow become a successful economic power, and that the pound is recovering (still 76p) as long as the Guardian and Observer and whoever (let's face it, you must read the Mail, to believe all the refugees are young men) tells you, so there's no point. You talk about open minds; you'd do well to invest in one. I'm bored with you.

Would you please stop attributing things to me I have never said!

At no time have I said there are no refugees. And, it's a damnable lie to claim that I've ever said that all muslins are terrorists.

No, I don't read the Daily Mail, and only arrive on the DM website on the odd occasion someone links me to it.

It's nothing to do with which newspaper says what, it's the evidence of my own eyes and ears.  I PERSONALLY MEET many illegal immigrants here, and that I have yet to meet one that tells me that he's fleeing from anything but a miserable life.  When I find a someone who tells me he is fleeing from a war zone then you will be the first to know.  Yes, they are virtually all young males and heading for Northern Europe.  The only immigrant females I've seen are prostituting themselves out in the country on minor main roads - and there aren't that many.  I don't make these things up and there's no need to exaggerate an already desperate situation.  Illegal immigrants are sensitive to being photographed but I will try to get you some pictures in the coming weeks.

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