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Maggie/915

Margaret Thatcher

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It just makes you wonder why we vote at all. Labour is a waste of time, thanks to Gordo, so who else is there to vote for? No one. The term a rock and a hard place springs to mind.

AHHH,hemmmmm!!

Present company accepted of course Keith!

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It was democracy that kept her there for so long. She won 3 general elections, unlike the present lot.

That's the point I'm making, Ex, but if you read on...It eventually took her own party members to get rid of her.

It's a bit of a polemic when a PM is voted in by the populace...who a vast amount eventually turn out to hate her...then her own party does an Ides of March on her. She must have crossed the Rubicon at some stage! But I reiterate, never before have i witnessed so much hatred towards a British PM. People can put rose-tinted glasses on if they wish, but the facts are that Maggie is hated by many and she was ditched by her own colleagues. The end of her reign wasn't exactly a triumph of democracy!

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Moral outrage or the odd fact does not constitute an argument.

Like everyone Margaret Thatcher had her good points however she upset an awful lot of people.

Personal viewpoints of people in our community are historical records for the future.

Well done to everyone who has been brave enough to post and subject themselves to the one line put down or the moral outrage.

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I've just realised I would have the same feelings towards Gordo that I have towards Maggie. I loathe both. I'm living in a democratic society and I don't trust any political party. As I say, a rock and a hard place.

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I've just realised I would have the same feelings towards Gordo that I have towards Maggie. I loathe both. I'm living in a democratic society and I don't trust any political party. As I say, a rock and a hard place.

Easy way round that Keith vote independent!

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Maggie Thatcher is generally despised in the North East mainly because of what she did to the mining industry.

So exactly what effect did she have on the coal mining industry in Northumberland?

When I started work in the mines in the late 1950's there were 63 collieries in Northumberland as can be seen from the attached list that is taken from a National Coal Board plan drawn up in 1957. A few of these may already have been closed at the time the plan was drawn up but we can be sure that there were in excess of 50 operating mines in 1957.

When Maggie's party won the elections in 1979, the only collieries still working were Whittle Drift, Lynemouth, Ellington, Woodhorn, Ashington, Bates and Brenkley Drift.

When she left office in 1990, Ellington and Whittle were the only two collieries still operating.

So, according to my calculations, during the 11 years that Maggie was PM only 5 collieries were closed.

It was her predecessors that were mainly resposible for the destruction of the industry, not Maggie, and almost all of the mines around Bedlington were closed under the Labour government of Harold Wilson.

The coal mining industry in Northumberland had to come to an end sometime and what hapened was inevitable. The tragedy is that not one government, Labour or Conservative, in the last 55 years made any real effort to establish new industries to replace the jobs lost by the closure of the collieries in Northumberland.

NORTHUMBERLAND COLLIERIES 1957.doc

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Maggie Thatcher is generally despised in the North East mainly because of what she did to the mining industry.

So exactly what effect did she have on the coal mining industry in Northumberland?

When I started work in the mines in the late 1950's there were 63 collieries in Northumberland as can be seen from the attached list that is taken from a National Coal Board plan drawn up in 1957. A few of these may already have been closed at the time the plan was drawn up but we can be sure that there were in excess of 50 operating mines in 1957.

When Maggie's party won the elections in 1979, the only collieries still working were Whittle Drift, Lynemouth, Ellington, Woodhorn, Ashington, Bates and Brenkley Drift.

When she left office in 1990, Ellington and Whittle were the only two collieries still operating.

So, according to my calculations, during the 11 years that Maggie was PM only 5 collieries were closed.

It was her predecessors that were mainly resposible for the destruction of the industry, not Maggie, and almost all of the mines around Bedlington were closed under the Labour government of Harold Wilson.

The coal mining industry in Northumberland had to come to an end sometime and what hapened was inevitable. The tragedy is that not one government, Labour or Conservative, in the last 55 years made any real effort to establish new industries to replace the jobs lost by the closure of the collieries in Northumberland.

NORTHUMBERLAND COLLIERIES 1957.doc

Spot on.

Our country has lost millions of jobs over the years and not all Maggies fault.

I remember we had ship yards, a car industry, foundarys, pits etc etc but these industries were closed for the very same reasons... unproductive.

Any business has to make money thats the whole reason for starting one, if its not it will eventually close.

Edited by Cyril

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Cyril,

Take a look at the Jimmy Goldsmith video I have posted on the crash 2 the sequel. His take is that once we engaged globalisation we were on a non stop escalator towards job losses, business closures and social unrest because of a disconnect between real value and employment.

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Cyril,

Take a look at the Jimmy Goldsmith video I have posted on the crash 2 the sequel. His take is that once we engaged globalisation we were on a non stop escalator towards job losses, business closures and social unrest because of a disconnect between real value and employment.

No disrespect Malcolm I am aware as to why... my point was it appears Mrs Thatcher is to blame for everything and the fact that she only closed 5 pits up here speaks volumes, we did lead the world in a lot of areas and the owners made money but the fact that they move there factorys etc overseas and employ/exploite cheap labour without bringing down the cost of said manufactured goods also speaks volumes, but we do have companys doing ok over here the sprirt of enterprise is still there and maybee one day the tide will turn.

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Cyril,

The problem is that if we are locked into that globalised business model the tide will only turn when either we sell our souls to be the cheapest in the labour market or the labour markets which took our jobs become uncompetitive as they mature.

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Well as I said one day the tide may, turn these countrys we are refering too, their labour markets will want what we have, it in my humble opinion is a natural progression.

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Just watched The Spirit of 45 trailer.

Now wished I had seen the film, thank you for posting the trailer SNRG.

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Well,i think i must be getting senile!

I could have sworn i sat up late one night,one-finger-typing all my thoughts and reasons for celebrating the witch's

death,and now i canna find my posting anywhere on the site.....

I remember being a bit strong in my phrasing,but spoke my thoughts exactly how i thought fit and decent,now i was very tired,having just recovered from a serious illness,and being hospitalised for two weeks,so i may have malfunctioned while attempting to post my comment..................

Or was my comments removed,undemocratically?

As for people coming onto this site and saying some comments against thatcher-the hatcheter have offended them.......

all i can say is, it's a bloody gud job they didn't work down the mines....not for anything to do with the witch,but just generally,anyone who could be so easily offended would have been made mincemeat of,by a lot of the hardened quick-witted and sarcastic lot who used to work in the pits.You started down there as a laddie,and it didn't take much more than a few weeks,before you had to learn to grow up fast,and not to let your feelings be hurt,and shown to be hurt!!

We used to say we had skin like bell-metal!!"sticks and stones....."was our motto!

My thinking is,if you are offended by other peoples comments,then get off the site!!

No apologies!!

Now to close......i was pleased to see the demise of the witch,but the one thing that really saddened me was......

......she died peacefully.

I would rather she had went in agony,like the untold agony she caused in thousands of communities through the whole country.

I am really a decent person,worked hard all my life...not how i might seem to some folk who pass comments about the miners,and know absolutely bugger-all about the mining industry,and it's awful history under the coal-owners!

thatcher closed our pits,then imported "cheap" coal from China and other countries,where child-labour still exists,and over 3000 miners/minors are killed underground every year....but are these facts of any interest to the do-gooders?

It's like putting warnings of health risks on cigarette packets.......do smokers take any notice?...same vibe!!

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An interesting observation Wilma!

Everyone's views are important and where people seek to achieve the moral high ground, they loose the argument, in my opinion.

Thatcher is history now and even having a pint of cider with her name on the product can cause a reaction!

The facts speak for themselves.

We have no longer many major manufacturers in the global market. (Ship building, cars, etc not to mention the coal industry)

We have allowed, even our chocolate firms to be bought out.

Thatcher beat the unions because she closed the industries they represented.

There is a fantastic song called 'Raise your banners high' which represents what we used to have.

A fair minded society where people helped others because it was the decent thing to do.

Not because they were motivated by money.

What did Harry Enfield's character say 'Loads of money'

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The track is 'Unity'

(Raise your Banners High) by

John Tams and Barry Coope!

Just on the off chance anyone is interested.

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Yep, HPW ... dark forces could be at work here. Thatcher apologists are everywhere, they lurk in damp corners ready to spring, with erasers in hand, to the defense of her legacy. Mad fools the lot of them!

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I agree all the way with you Wilma, most of my family were miners! Maggie when you say a "fair minded society" Maggie was heard to say after a long time in power that there is "no such thing as society in Great Britain". She was not wrong, she made sure it was gone ----- forever.

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I agree all the way with you Wilma, most of my family were miners! Maggie when you say a "fair minded society" Maggie was heard to say after a long time in power that there is "no such thing as society in Great Britain". She was not wrong, she made sure it was gone ----- forever.

This is often quoted - but completely out of context! Early on, as an MP she attended an Oxford dinner where she made remarks about society. The academics there - both left wing and right wing - immediately jumped on this and pointed out that this view was wrong-headed and that in the final analysis all that need be considered was the individual. They put up various cogent arguments which she considered for a while and then said something to the effect of perhaps she needed to do a rethink on this and give more consideration to the effect of political policies on the individual.

A short while later she revised her views in the light of what she'd learned, and not what the political chattering classes liked to believe the World should be like. This wasn't the delusion of some out-of-touch person as Labour would have you believe, but someone who considered facts, realities, and basic fairnesses.

Little mention here of the actual facts surrounding the miner's strike. The kids here are getting an extremely slanted view of what actually happened. No mention that Scargill wouldn't poll his members - because he knew he'd lose! No mention that the actual purpose behind the strike was to overthrow a democratically elected government! No mention that Scargill refused to negotiate, no mention of what had gone before.

Indeed, Neil Kinnock said of Arthur Scargill this week, that his failure to compromise and negotiate lengthened the miners' strike substantially. -- http://labour-uncut....itics-of-blame/

There are few countries in the World where an open revolutionary trying to bring down a democratically elected government. would be enjoying their retirement in luxury! Indeed there are many where he'd still be in a dark dungeon out of the public eye.

"I honestly do believe that Arthur, in his own world, believes that the NUM is here to afford him the lifestyle that he's become accustomed to.

"Personally, I don't think that's the reason for the existence of the NUM.” -- National Secretary of the NUM, Chris Kitchen

It's really sad that local miners chose to follow this man, but no one forced them to do this. To demonise a Prime Minister who did more for their country than any other peace time leader is even sadder! But, the left always demonises when it can't put up a rational argument.

The sad truth is that under Mrs T. the miners were forced to take off their rose-coloured spectacles and face reality - holding the country to ransom may have been OK under that pathetic excuse for a Prime Minister, Ted Heath, but it had to come to an end. Labour were very grateful it didn't come to an end on their watch, but the very last thing they were going to do was reverse any of the legislation which they themselves dare not enact. The country as a whole knew the reality, but sadly a lot of local people are still trying to hang on to their illusions. Her true crime: she burst your illusions! Get over it and stop living in the past; in particular stop teaching half-truths to your children and grandchildren, and forcing them to them re-live your mistakes!

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What did I say HPW about the Thatch apologists?

Blighty better off because of her regime? Just look at the rump that's been left to limp on, and most of that's now owned by a few foreigners. Yep, welcome to Thatch's 'brave new world' and tell the kids how wonderful it all is!

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