16 replies to this topic

[Monsta®]

BedlingtonLass, on Feb 21 2009, 09:29 PM, said:

Litres of course, i need more power to my car the phrase that size does matter is very true in this case.
Next car im looking at is either a honda civic or a toyota celica

does saving the planet never cross anyones mind!

[BedlingtonLass]

monsta, on Feb 21 2009, 09:36 PM, said:

does saving the planet never cross anyones mind!

hmmmmmm i do my bit for the planet but a better car would be great

[Vic Patterson]

Not when it comes to buying a car! I'll leave that to the politicians and engineers, (I don't buy into the "Global warming" theory) I do buy green and recycle just about everything!
Vic

[Monsta®]

Hollymount, on Feb 21 2009, 11:09 PM, said:

Not when it comes to buying a car! I'll leave that to the politicians and engineers, (I don't buy into the "Global warming" theory) I do buy green and recycle just about everything!
Vic

ok then all this freak weather is just an act of god and the polar ice caps are melting cause santy left his fan heater on! what do you mean you don't buy into it! you'll be buy a house on stilts before long and travel to the shops in a boat!

[Vic Patterson]

I didn't word it very well, I should have said the "global warming SCARE" theory, I do believe we are going through normal global warming that has been happening since the Earth was formed and most significantly the last ice age, if we weren't then we would still be in the ice age! I don't believe we are the major cause of the warming, that being said as we are only caretakers' of the Earth I do believe we have do our best to look after it, without putting myself in the poor house I do my best.

Houses on stilts, they have been doing that for centuries, and Santa is too smart to leave his heater going, especially with cost of heating these days.

A great subject for another debate.

GGG "helicopter!" now that is the way to get around.

[Monsta®]

Hollymount, on Feb 22 2009, 04:15 PM, said:

GGG "helicopter!" now that is the way to get around.

unless your an oil worker!

[threegee]

monsta, on Feb 22 2009, 03:29 PM, said:

ok then all this freak weather is just an act of god and the polar ice caps are melting cause santy left his fan heater on!...

We've always had "freak weather". By definition weather is changeable and full of surprises, otherwise we wouldn't be preoccupied with it.

There are places where the ice is getting thicker. Doesn't suit the global warming industry to take the cameras there! NASA satellites (which measure globally and can monitor minute changes) show no recordable differences on average. Doesn't suit to mention this! You can arrive at any conclusion by selecting your data.

Continents move; solar activity varies; the earth wobbles; the jet-stream moves about; lots and lots of other things change over time. The Earth has a monstrous Carbon Dioxide sink called the oceans, and they have a super way of locking up carbon in carbonates (limestone etc.). But the whole ecosystem is fairly self-regulating, else we wouldn't be here. We wouldn't have survived (as mamals) through previous cataclysmic changes, disasters far greater than the doom-mongers can ever come up with.

Doesn't mean we should treat the Earth like a garbage dump. Doesn't mean that we can go on in the same dumb way as before. But it does mean that all the dire predictions are a load of utter crap, fed to us by people who can profit from the alarmist talk. That we should spend countless billions on carbon capture and such junk when there are real problems to solve - people dying for want of food and the simplest or remedies - is almost beyond belief!

Pity the oil price has dropped so much; we were just at the point where we would have been forced to get off our backsides and speed-up the development of alternative technologies. Now that has been once-again put off. Our politicians are now too busy digging themselves further into a crisis they themselves created (by licensing the printing of huge amounts of money to buy votes) to return to the subject. So.. "global warming" is off the agenda for now, and thank goodness because it was a non-issue to start with!

I for one would readily pay far more for a car that had fuel-cell technology. Not just because it would reduce pollution (particularly lead) but because it could even work out cheaper over the life of the vehicle. So why haven't we seen the incentives to produce and market these vehicles? Could it be that the government is addicted to taxing the motorist (and even taxing tax itself!), and without that revenue they'd be sunk. More or less the same situation which applies to tobacco - tax it as far as you can possibly get away with, but not enough to kill the golden goose.

If to get some needed change the existing motor manufacturers have to go bust then bring it on! But the government is preoccupied with the short-term consequences and vote garnering, so they won't keep their noses out of the situation, or their hands out of our pockets!

[Monsta®]

sorry then this graph lies!



and its from nasa too!

[Pete]

monsta, on Feb 22 2009, 06:29 PM, said:

sorry then this graph lies!



and its from nasa too!

I am no expert on this subject but I do not believe a word of the global warming campaigners simply because the weather we have just had is no different from what we used to have thirty, forty years ago. Weather patterns change but money men don't, green coal how can that be any different from normal coal? I even saw an advert today for green tea, eh, green tea is this a more environmentally friendly version of one of our daily drinks.

[threegee]

monsta, on Feb 22 2009, 07:29 PM, said:

sorry then this graph lies!

..

and its from nasa too!

You are right, it's partial data, so a cunning deception of the global warming industry.

Here's the full map over the past 30 years:



The Orange areas are warming where the ice is thinning, and the Blue areas cooling, where the ice is thickening.

As you'll observe in equatorial regions (where we are told people will roast to death/die of starvation over a couple of fictitious degrees change) there is in fact virtually no change at all. They have to sucker us on that score, and appeal to our concern for others, because a degree or two in Northern latitudes can only be good. We'd produce more food, use less heating, burn less fosil fuels, etc.

[Vic Patterson]

Oil and gas is formed by the fossilized vegetation from the past, before various the ice ages, tropical fossils have been recently found up in the arctic that tells me we have been through more than one cycle of global warming and cooling. Around here we have dinosaur footprints in the rock being exposed from deep down in the open pit mines, , and were on the top of a mountain! I picked up fossilized things at Cambois. (while picking wiliks.)

Britain was once covered with trees, man came along and settled there, it's called progress. This tells ME that this has being going on for millions of years and I don't think we will stop it, we can do our best to make the best of what we have and adapt!

If that graph was extended backwards what would it show?
Vic

[threegee]

Hollymount, on Feb 22 2009, 08:26 PM, said:

...
If that graph was extended backwards what would it show?
Vic

.. that it's historically bloody cold at the moment!

The real question is why has it been so cold for so very long. And, as we can easily see, the Earth self-regulates to about 25c, even following some utterly cataclysmic random event. About five or six degrees warmer than it is today seems about average, but there's some hope of that in the next few hundred thousand years!

[mercuryg]

monsta, on Feb 22 2009, 06:29 PM, said:

sorry then this graph lies!



and its from nasa too!

yes, it does.

NASA uses data from several sources to compile graphs such as that, and has had a tendency to manipulate data to miss out any unusual 'spikes' or dips; this is common practice in predictive science, but does lead to theory being a greater element of the results than practice.

As recently as October last year a monthly updat was issued by the authority that monitors climate change whose name ive forgotten (IPCC?) based on data given to it by one of the four sources that provides data to NASA, and elsewhere, for this purpose. They published a world map, based on this information, showing that October, 2008, was the warmest such month, worldwide, in recorded history, and banged on about this being 'evidence' of the increasing warming problem.

two days later, however, they had to withdraw the data as it had been pointed out to them, by someone casually looking at it on the net, that all of the weather stations across siberia and the surroundiung areas were showing exactly the same temperatures as they had the previous month, September. It was immediately announced that, with apologies, they had - in fact - used the same information, erroneously! When asked how this could happen they replied that they 'could not afford' to install quality control measures. In other words, they have no way of knowing if the information thy are putting out - information used the world over to monitor the situation - is, in fact, correct.

Futhermore, when they published the new map a few days later - with teh correct information - it showed a marked 'warm spot' over a totally different part of the world, rather than just teh expected change in siberia; the explanation was that information they had by then had not been available before, the implication, of course, being that what we get is what they have, and not the full picture.

Given that one of the world's major providers of climate change information issues it without checks, what can we believe?

In addition, given that my neice comes home and tells me that every time I leave a light on I kill a polar bear, I think some tempering of the scaremongering is very much needed.

[Mr Darn]

just where in the world is this "average" taken?

take an average temp in bedders, then one in crete, and i'll bet theres more than a few degrees difference!

[Monsta®]

Mr Darn™, on Mar 4 2009, 06:50 PM, said:

just where in the world is this "average" taken?

take an average temp in bedders, then one in crete, and i'll bet theres more than a few degrees difference!

exactly if were to believe this the highest average temp according to that graph is 26 degrees? thats 11 degrees above normal? and the ice caps are said to melt completely with a mear 2 degree rise!!!

proof that the graph tells porkies!